New Campaign to Sue Patent Trolls

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

2011-07-10 13:58:36 UTC

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Developers Against Patents
,----[ Quote ]
| We are collecting name and contact information of individual
| developers or companies who are interested in forming a group
| to start suing patent trolls for Declaratory Judgement that our
| work in the software world does not violate any of their patents.
`----
http://developersagainstpatents.org/
Microsoft should also be reported for RICO Act violations.

It probably won't work as the source of the problem
remains the patent office.

At this rate you may as well sue the patent office and the
judiciary for allowing patent trolling to wreck free market
which leads to abject failure.

The problem is the US patent office - it is very supportive
of patent trolls and have themselves become the instrument
of government sponsored patent trolling.

The EFF needs to wade in and make some noise on the
issue regularly to change the way patent litigation
is practiced. Its all heavily weighted in the interests of
patent trollards and thats just not what the system
was set up and designed to do.

The patent office needs to wade in and recommend patent trolling creates
victims and the courts and prove to all its critics
that the patent office will never side with patent trolls in principle
and wherever possible in practice. They have done this before
with submarine patents which is another form of patent trolling
where patent trolls abused due process to extend grant date way way after
a product has come into common use.

For current round of patent trolls, the rules on patent enforcement
practice has be based on good practice that makes sense for
a free market to work without the patent office and patent law courts
being itself the main obstacle to free market.

So, the patent office needs to rule on how patent litigation is
practiced to make the system fair:

1. No patent litigation is valid unless those accused have been given
30 days of advanced publicly disseminable
notice to desist citing the EXACT legal reason
citing the patent number and relevant paragraph in clear an
unambiguous form - a form that will be presented to the courts with no
further additional claims. If new claims are added, the accused must
be notified again for 30 days before it can be presented in a court.
These publicly disseminable notices should be allowed to be posted in
public forums for victims to get community help and reduce their costs
particularly if they are a small firm.

2. Any company that uses patent portfolio as a weapon for patent trolling
should find its damages serious cut and costs awarded against them
if it can be shown that the accused is also a victim of intentional
patent trolling. The courts should have the right to over rule any and
all NDAs that may hinder this process to discover this information.

The courts and patent office have no rights to be distorting
the free market by allowing patent trolls to flourish through extortion and
hindering the free market.

The patent office and patent courts need to review how
they operate frequently to ensure they are never again
the source of future variants of patent trolling and free market
interference.

Roy Schestowitz

2011-07-10 14:12:52 UTC

Permalink

____/ 7 on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 14:58 : \____

Post by 7

It probably won't work as the source of the problem
remains the patent office.
At this rate you may as well sue the patent office and the
judiciary for allowing patent trolling to wreck free market
which leads to abject failure.
The problem is the US patent office - it is very supportive
of patent trolls and have themselves become the instrument
of government sponsored patent trolling.
The EFF needs to wade in and make some noise on the
issue regularly to change the way patent litigation
is practiced. Its all heavily weighted in the interests of
patent trollards and thats just not what the system
was set up and designed to do.
The patent office needs to wade in and recommend patent trolling creates
victims and the courts and prove to all its critics
that the patent office will never side with patent trolls in principle
and wherever possible in practice. They have done this before
with submarine patents which is another form of patent trolling
where patent trolls abused due process to extend grant date way way after
a product has come into common use.
For current round of patent trolls, the rules on patent enforcement
practice has be based on good practice that makes sense for
a free market to work without the patent office and patent law courts
being itself the main obstacle to free market.
So, the patent office needs to rule on how patent litigation is
1. No patent litigation is valid unless those accused have been given
30 days of advanced publicly disseminable
notice to desist citing the EXACT legal reason
citing the patent number and relevant paragraph in clear an
unambiguous form - a form that will be presented to the courts with no
further additional claims. If new claims are added, the accused must
be notified again for 30 days before it can be presented in a court.
These publicly disseminable notices should be allowed to be posted in
public forums for victims to get community help and reduce their costs
particularly if they are a small firm.
2. Any company that uses patent portfolio as a weapon for patent trolling
should find its damages serious cut and costs awarded against them
if it can be shown that the accused is also a victim of intentional
patent trolling. The courts should have the right to over rule any and
all NDAs that may hinder this process to discover this information.
The courts and patent office have no rights to be distorting
the free market by allowing patent trolls to flourish through extortion and
hindering the free market.
The patent office and patent courts need to review how
they operate frequently to ensure they are never again
the source of future variants of patent trolling and free market
interference.

Your proposal, like many others, would improve the function of patent offices, but
these establishments are run by patent lawyers, for patent lawyers. When the fox
guards the hen house it's time to scrape/reboot the whole farm.

- --
~~ Best of wishes

Dr. Roy S. Schestowitz (Ph.D. Medical Biophysics), Imaging Researcher
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux administration | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Editor @ http://techrights.org & Broadcaster @ http://bytesmedia.co.uk/
GPL-licensed 3-D Othello @ http://othellomaster.com
Non-profit search engine proposal @ http://iuron.com
Contact E-mail address (direct): s at schestowitz dot com
Contact Internet phone (SIP): ***@ekiga.net (24/7)

2011-07-10 15:30:18 UTC

Permalink

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
____/ 7 on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 14:58 : \____

Post by 7

It probably won't work as the source of the problem
remains the patent office.
At this rate you may as well sue the patent office and the
judiciary for allowing patent trolling to wreck free market
which leads to abject failure.
The problem is the US patent office - it is very supportive
of patent trolls and have themselves become the instrument
of government sponsored patent trolling.
The EFF needs to wade in and make some noise on the
issue regularly to change the way patent litigation
is practiced. Its all heavily weighted in the interests of
patent trollards and thats just not what the system
was set up and designed to do.
The patent office needs to wade in and recommend patent trolling creates
victims and the courts and prove to all its critics
that the patent office will never side with patent trolls in principle
and wherever possible in practice. They have done this before
with submarine patents which is another form of patent trolling
where patent trolls abused due process to extend grant date way way after
a product has come into common use.
For current round of patent trolls, the rules on patent enforcement
practice has be based on good practice that makes sense for
a free market to work without the patent office and patent law courts
being itself the main obstacle to free market.
So, the patent office needs to rule on how patent litigation is
1. No patent litigation is valid unless those accused have been given
30 days of advanced publicly disseminable
notice to desist citing the EXACT legal reason
citing the patent number and relevant paragraph in clear an
unambiguous form - a form that will be presented to the courts with no
further additional claims. If new claims are added, the accused must
be notified again for 30 days before it can be presented in a court.
These publicly disseminable notices should be allowed to be posted in
public forums for victims to get community help and reduce their costs
particularly if they are a small firm.
2. Any company that uses patent portfolio as a weapon for patent trolling
should find its damages serious cut and costs awarded against them
if it can be shown that the accused is also a victim of intentional
patent trolling. The courts should have the right to over rule any and
all NDAs that may hinder this process to discover this information.
The courts and patent office have no rights to be distorting
the free market by allowing patent trolls to flourish through extortion
and hindering the free market.
The patent office and patent courts need to review how
they operate frequently to ensure they are never again
the source of future variants of patent trolling and free market
interference.

You are right the patent office will have its own agenda to protect
the patent trolls because they are making off with so much money
from it.

The usual way to manage the foxy guardians is to put guardians on guardians.
A government could set up a patenting watchdog organisation
that monitors both the patent office and the patent holders and interest
groups and have members from both sides of the equation so that
all interests are represented. That way the patent office can make
its promises to the patent watchdog and if they fail to carry
out reforms, then they would be faced with having to give
very specific explanations of failure.

Roy Schestowitz

2011-07-10 16:20:20 UTC

Permalink

____/ 7 on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 16:30 : \____

Post by 7

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
____/ 7 on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 14:58 : \____

Post by 7

It probably won't work as the source of the problem
remains the patent office.
At this rate you may as well sue the patent office and the
judiciary for allowing patent trolling to wreck free market
which leads to abject failure.
The problem is the US patent office - it is very supportive
of patent trolls and have themselves become the instrument
of government sponsored patent trolling.
The EFF needs to wade in and make some noise on the
issue regularly to change the way patent litigation
is practiced. Its all heavily weighted in the interests of
patent trollards and thats just not what the system
was set up and designed to do.
The patent office needs to wade in and recommend patent trolling creates
victims and the courts and prove to all its critics
that the patent office will never side with patent trolls in principle
and wherever possible in practice. They have done this before
with submarine patents which is another form of patent trolling
where patent trolls abused due process to extend grant date way way after
a product has come into common use.
For current round of patent trolls, the rules on patent enforcement
practice has be based on good practice that makes sense for
a free market to work without the patent office and patent law courts
being itself the main obstacle to free market.
So, the patent office needs to rule on how patent litigation is
1. No patent litigation is valid unless those accused have been given
30 days of advanced publicly disseminable
notice to desist citing the EXACT legal reason
citing the patent number and relevant paragraph in clear an
unambiguous form - a form that will be presented to the courts with no
further additional claims. If new claims are added, the accused must
be notified again for 30 days before it can be presented in a court.
These publicly disseminable notices should be allowed to be posted in
public forums for victims to get community help and reduce their costs
particularly if they are a small firm.
2. Any company that uses patent portfolio as a weapon for patent trolling
should find its damages serious cut and costs awarded against them
if it can be shown that the accused is also a victim of intentional
patent trolling. The courts should have the right to over rule any and
all NDAs that may hinder this process to discover this information.
The courts and patent office have no rights to be distorting
the free market by allowing patent trolls to flourish through extortion
and hindering the free market.
The patent office and patent courts need to review how
they operate frequently to ensure they are never again
the source of future variants of patent trolling and free market
interference.

You are right the patent office will have its own agenda to protect
the patent trolls because they are making off with so much money
from it.
The usual way to manage the foxy guardians is to put guardians on guardians.
A government could set up a patenting watchdog organisation
that monitors both the patent office and the patent holders and interest
groups and have members from both sides of the equation so that
all interests are represented. That way the patent office can make
its promises to the patent watchdog and if they fail to carry
out reforms, then they would be faced with having to give
very specific explanations of failure.

Yes, just watch what the USPTO head said (posted 15 minutes ago: http://techrights.org/2011/07/10/david-kappos-disappoints/ ).
He clearly wants more monopolies because it's business to him. Compare
that to what developers want http://techrights.org/2011/07/10/casting-shadow-on-w3c/

The patent issue has become the #1 issue for Linux and FOSS.

- --
~~ Best of wishes

Dr. Roy S. Schestowitz (Ph.D. Medical Biophysics), Imaging Researcher
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux administration | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Editor @ http://techrights.org & Broadcaster @ http://bytesmedia.co.uk/
GPL-licensed 3-D Othello @ http://othellomaster.com
Non-profit search engine proposal @ http://iuron.com
Contact E-mail address (direct): s at schestowitz dot com
Contact Internet phone (SIP): ***@ekiga.net (24/7)

2011-07-10 17:39:28 UTC

Permalink

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
____/ 7 on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 16:30 : \____

Post by 7

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
____/ 7 on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 14:58 : \____

Post by 7

It probably won't work as the source of the problem
remains the patent office.
At this rate you may as well sue the patent office and the
judiciary for allowing patent trolling to wreck free market
which leads to abject failure.
The problem is the US patent office - it is very supportive
of patent trolls and have themselves become the instrument
of government sponsored patent trolling.
The EFF needs to wade in and make some noise on the
issue regularly to change the way patent litigation
is practiced. Its all heavily weighted in the interests of
patent trollards and thats just not what the system
was set up and designed to do.
The patent office needs to wade in and recommend patent trolling
creates victims and the courts and prove to all its critics
that the patent office will never side with patent trolls in principle
and wherever possible in practice. They have done this before
with submarine patents which is another form of patent trolling
where patent trolls abused due process to extend grant date way way
after a product has come into common use.
For current round of patent trolls, the rules on patent enforcement
practice has be based on good practice that makes sense for
a free market to work without the patent office and patent law courts
being itself the main obstacle to free market.
So, the patent office needs to rule on how patent litigation is
1. No patent litigation is valid unless those accused have been given
30 days of advanced publicly disseminable
notice to desist citing the EXACT legal reason
citing the patent number and relevant paragraph in clear an
unambiguous form - a form that will be presented to the courts with
no further additional claims. If new claims are added, the accused
must be notified again for 30 days before it can be presented in a
court. These publicly disseminable notices should be allowed to be
posted in public forums for victims to get community help and reduce
their costs particularly if they are a small firm.
2. Any company that uses patent portfolio as a weapon for patent trolling
should find its damages serious cut and costs awarded against them
if it can be shown that the accused is also a victim of intentional
patent trolling. The courts should have the right to over rule any
and all NDAs that may hinder this process to discover this
information.
The courts and patent office have no rights to be distorting
the free market by allowing patent trolls to flourish through extortion
and hindering the free market.
The patent office and patent courts need to review how
they operate frequently to ensure they are never again
the source of future variants of patent trolling and free market
interference.

You are right the patent office will have its own agenda to protect
the patent trolls because they are making off with so much money
from it.
The usual way to manage the foxy guardians is to put guardians on
guardians. A government could set up a patenting watchdog organisation
that monitors both the patent office and the patent holders and interest
groups and have members from both sides of the equation so that
all interests are represented. That way the patent office can make
its promises to the patent watchdog and if they fail to carry
out reforms, then they would be faced with having to give
very specific explanations of failure.

http://techrights.org/2011/07/10/david-kappos-disappoints/ ). He clearly
wants more monopolies because it's business to him. Compare that to what
developers want http://techrights.org/2011/07/10/casting-shadow-on-w3c/
The patent issue has become the #1 issue for Linux and FOSS.

As the world changes, so too must the patent office which must now
strive to eliminate patent trolls that interfere with free market
economics. The patent office never had a mandate from anyone
to go around facilating conditions for creating patent trolls
that hinder the free market.

Hadron

2011-07-10 17:45:34 UTC

Permalink

Post by 7

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
____/ 7 on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 16:30 : \____

Post by 7

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
____/ 7 on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 14:58 : \____

Post by 7

It probably won't work as the source of the problem
remains the patent office.
At this rate you may as well sue the patent office and the
judiciary for allowing patent trolling to wreck free market
which leads to abject failure.
The problem is the US patent office - it is very supportive
of patent trolls and have themselves become the instrument
of government sponsored patent trolling.
The EFF needs to wade in and make some noise on the
issue regularly to change the way patent litigation
is practiced. Its all heavily weighted in the interests of
patent trollards and thats just not what the system
was set up and designed to do.
The patent office needs to wade in and recommend patent trolling
creates victims and the courts and prove to all its critics
that the patent office will never side with patent trolls in principle
and wherever possible in practice. They have done this before
with submarine patents which is another form of patent trolling
where patent trolls abused due process to extend grant date way way
after a product has come into common use.
For current round of patent trolls, the rules on patent enforcement
practice has be based on good practice that makes sense for
a free market to work without the patent office and patent law courts
being itself the main obstacle to free market.
So, the patent office needs to rule on how patent litigation is
1. No patent litigation is valid unless those accused have been given
30 days of advanced publicly disseminable
notice to desist citing the EXACT legal reason
citing the patent number and relevant paragraph in clear an
unambiguous form - a form that will be presented to the courts with
no further additional claims. If new claims are added, the accused
must be notified again for 30 days before it can be presented in a
court. These publicly disseminable notices should be allowed to be
posted in public forums for victims to get community help and reduce
their costs particularly if they are a small firm.
2. Any company that uses patent portfolio as a weapon for patent trolling
should find its damages serious cut and costs awarded against them
if it can be shown that the accused is also a victim of intentional
patent trolling. The courts should have the right to over rule any
and all NDAs that may hinder this process to discover this
information.
The courts and patent office have no rights to be distorting
the free market by allowing patent trolls to flourish through extortion
and hindering the free market.
The patent office and patent courts need to review how
they operate frequently to ensure they are never again
the source of future variants of patent trolling and free market
interference.

You are right the patent office will have its own agenda to protect
the patent trolls because they are making off with so much money
from it.
The usual way to manage the foxy guardians is to put guardians on
guardians. A government could set up a patenting watchdog organisation
that monitors both the patent office and the patent holders and interest
groups and have members from both sides of the equation so that
all interests are represented. That way the patent office can make
its promises to the patent watchdog and if they fail to carry
out reforms, then they would be faced with having to give
very specific explanations of failure.

You haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Patents exist to stop
freeloading dimwits like you stealing other peoples work and R&D. Tell
us fraudster, where is this transaction manager and nanobot factory you
keep boasting about? Why is that not Free and Open?

You're a dickhead of the worst order.

And dont try and string along sentences like the above as its abundantly
clear to anyone you're not capable.

Snit

2011-07-10 17:53:16 UTC

Permalink

Post by Hadron

Post by 7
As the world changes, so too must the patent office which must now
strive to eliminate patent trolls that interfere with free market
economics. The patent office never had a mandate from anyone
to go around facilating conditions for creating patent trolls
that hinder the free market.

You haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Patents exist to stop
freeloading dimwits like you stealing other peoples work and R&D. Tell
us fraudster, where is this transaction manager and nanobot factory you
keep boasting about? Why is that not Free and Open?
You're a dickhead of the worst order.
And dont try and string along sentences like the above as its abundantly
clear to anyone you're not capable.

Hmmm, the BSD is bad because it allows people to use free stuff as they
wish, but patents are bad because they *disallow* people to use stuff as
they wish.

Makes perfect sense!

LOL!

--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

Clogwog

2011-07-10 19:34:32 UTC

Permalink

Post by Snit

Post by Hadron

You haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Patents exist to stop
freeloading dimwits like you stealing other peoples work and R&D. Tell
us fraudster, where is this transaction manager and nanobot factory you
keep boasting about? Why is that not Free and Open?
You're a dickhead of the worst order.
And dont try and string along sentences like the above as its abundantly
clear to anyone you're not capable.

Hmmm, the BSD is bad because it allows people to use free stuff as they
wish, but patents are bad because they disallow people to use stuff as
they wish.
Makes perfect sense!
LOL !

All projects, JM Research Projects, on the website of "7" are closed
source.
http://www.enemygadgets.com/

Clogwog

2011-07-10 19:25:10 UTC

Permalink

Post by Hadron

Post by 7

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
____/ 7 on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 16:30 : \____

Post by 7

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
____/ 7 on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 14:58 : \____

Post by 7

It probably won't work as the source of the problem
remains the patent office.
At this rate you may as well sue the patent office and the
judiciary for allowing patent trolling to wreck free market
which leads to abject failure.
The problem is the US patent office - it is very supportive
of patent trolls and have themselves become the instrument
of government sponsored patent trolling.
The EFF needs to wade in and make some noise on the
issue regularly to change the way patent litigation
is practiced. Its all heavily weighted in the interests of
patent trollards and thats just not what the system
was set up and designed to do.
The patent office needs to wade in and recommend patent trolling
creates victims and the courts and prove to all its critics
that the patent office will never side with patent trolls in principle
and wherever possible in practice. They have done this before
with submarine patents which is another form of patent trolling
where patent trolls abused due process to extend grant date way way
after a product has come into common use.
For current round of patent trolls, the rules on patent enforcement
practice has be based on good practice that makes sense for
a free market to work without the patent office and patent law courts
being itself the main obstacle to free market.
So, the patent office needs to rule on how patent litigation is
1. No patent litigation is valid unless those accused have been given
30 days of advanced publicly disseminable
notice to desist citing the EXACT legal reason
citing the patent number and relevant paragraph in clear an
unambiguous form - a form that will be presented to the courts with
no further additional claims. If new claims are added, the accused
must be notified again for 30 days before it can be presented in a
court. These publicly disseminable notices should be allowed to be
posted in public forums for victims to get community help and reduce
their costs particularly if they are a small firm.
2. Any company that uses patent portfolio as a weapon for patent trolling
should find its damages serious cut and costs awarded against them
if it can be shown that the accused is also a victim of intentional
patent trolling. The courts should have the right to over rule any
and all NDAs that may hinder this process to discover this
information.
The courts and patent office have no rights to be distorting
the free market by allowing patent trolls to flourish through extortion
and hindering the free market.
The patent office and patent courts need to review how
they operate frequently to ensure they are never again
the source of future variants of patent trolling and free market
interference.

You are right the patent office will have its own agenda to protect
the patent trolls because they are making off with so much money
from it.
The usual way to manage the foxy guardians is to put guardians on
guardians. A government could set up a patenting watchdog organisation
that monitors both the patent office and the patent holders and interest
groups and have members from both sides of the equation so that
all interests are represented. That way the patent office can make
its promises to the patent watchdog and if they fail to carry
out reforms, then they would be faced with having to give
very specific explanations of failure.

You must be joking!
Wiperman Humanoid Robot (TM) and the Magnetic Pulse Detonation Wave Engine
(TM) not free and open?
You might be right, there is still no link for the source code to his
"Stellar Drive Engine", Open Sourced since 5 - April - 2010, on his website.

Roy Schestowitz

2011-07-11 01:30:47 UTC

Permalink

____/ 7 on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 18:39 : \____

Post by 7

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
____/ 7 on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 16:30 : \____

Post by 7

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
____/ 7 on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 14:58 : \____

Post by 7

It probably won't work as the source of the problem
remains the patent office.
At this rate you may as well sue the patent office and the
judiciary for allowing patent trolling to wreck free market
which leads to abject failure.
The problem is the US patent office - it is very supportive
of patent trolls and have themselves become the instrument
of government sponsored patent trolling.
The EFF needs to wade in and make some noise on the
issue regularly to change the way patent litigation
is practiced. Its all heavily weighted in the interests of
patent trollards and thats just not what the system
was set up and designed to do.
The patent office needs to wade in and recommend patent trolling
creates victims and the courts and prove to all its critics
that the patent office will never side with patent trolls in principle
and wherever possible in practice. They have done this before
with submarine patents which is another form of patent trolling
where patent trolls abused due process to extend grant date way way
after a product has come into common use.
For current round of patent trolls, the rules on patent enforcement
practice has be based on good practice that makes sense for
a free market to work without the patent office and patent law courts
being itself the main obstacle to free market.
So, the patent office needs to rule on how patent litigation is
1. No patent litigation is valid unless those accused have been given
30 days of advanced publicly disseminable
notice to desist citing the EXACT legal reason
citing the patent number and relevant paragraph in clear an
unambiguous form - a form that will be presented to the courts with
no further additional claims. If new claims are added, the accused
must be notified again for 30 days before it can be presented in a
court. These publicly disseminable notices should be allowed to be
posted in public forums for victims to get community help and reduce
their costs particularly if they are a small firm.
2. Any company that uses patent portfolio as a weapon for patent trolling
should find its damages serious cut and costs awarded against them
if it can be shown that the accused is also a victim of intentional
patent trolling. The courts should have the right to over rule any
and all NDAs that may hinder this process to discover this
information.
The courts and patent office have no rights to be distorting
the free market by allowing patent trolls to flourish through extortion
and hindering the free market.
The patent office and patent courts need to review how
they operate frequently to ensure they are never again
the source of future variants of patent trolling and free market
interference.

You are right the patent office will have its own agenda to protect
the patent trolls because they are making off with so much money
from it.
The usual way to manage the foxy guardians is to put guardians on
guardians. A government could set up a patenting watchdog organisation
that monitors both the patent office and the patent holders and interest
groups and have members from both sides of the equation so that
all interests are represented. That way the patent office can make
its promises to the patent watchdog and if they fail to carry
out reforms, then they would be faced with having to give
very specific explanations of failure.

Contrary to lawyers' propaganda, the patent office was created to incentivise
publication of ideas. We now have the Internet, so the necessity of the patent office
is dubious at best -- a stretch hinged only on thinly-veiled propaganda. People
would publish ideas and abolish trade secrets even if it wasn't for the USPTO...

- --
~~ Best of wishes

Dr. Roy S. Schestowitz (Ph.D. Medical Biophysics), Imaging Researcher
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux administration | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Editor @ http://techrights.org & Broadcaster @ http://bytesmedia.co.uk/
GPL-licensed 3-D Othello @ http://othellomaster.com
Non-profit search engine proposal @ http://iuron.com
Contact E-mail address (direct): s at schestowitz dot com
Contact Internet phone (SIP): ***@ekiga.net (24/7)

2011-07-10 15:30:18 UTC

Permalink

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
____/ 7 on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 14:58 : \____

Post by 7

It probably won't work as the source of the problem
remains the patent office.
At this rate you may as well sue the patent office and the
judiciary for allowing patent trolling to wreck free market
which leads to abject failure.
The problem is the US patent office - it is very supportive
of patent trolls and have themselves become the instrument
of government sponsored patent trolling.
The EFF needs to wade in and make some noise on the
issue regularly to change the way patent litigation
is practiced. Its all heavily weighted in the interests of
patent trollards and thats just not what the system
was set up and designed to do.
The patent office needs to wade in and recommend patent trolling creates
victims and the courts and prove to all its critics
that the patent office will never side with patent trolls in principle
and wherever possible in practice. They have done this before
with submarine patents which is another form of patent trolling
where patent trolls abused due process to extend grant date way way after
a product has come into common use.
For current round of patent trolls, the rules on patent enforcement
practice has be based on good practice that makes sense for
a free market to work without the patent office and patent law courts
being itself the main obstacle to free market.
So, the patent office needs to rule on how patent litigation is
1. No patent litigation is valid unless those accused have been given
30 days of advanced publicly disseminable
notice to desist citing the EXACT legal reason
citing the patent number and relevant paragraph in clear an
unambiguous form - a form that will be presented to the courts with no
further additional claims. If new claims are added, the accused must
be notified again for 30 days before it can be presented in a court.
These publicly disseminable notices should be allowed to be posted in
public forums for victims to get community help and reduce their costs
particularly if they are a small firm.
2. Any company that uses patent portfolio as a weapon for patent trolling
should find its damages serious cut and costs awarded against them
if it can be shown that the accused is also a victim of intentional
patent trolling. The courts should have the right to over rule any and
all NDAs that may hinder this process to discover this information.
The courts and patent office have no rights to be distorting
the free market by allowing patent trolls to flourish through extortion
and hindering the free market.
The patent office and patent courts need to review how
they operate frequently to ensure they are never again
the source of future variants of patent trolling and free market
interference.

Kari Laine

2011-07-10 16:41:05 UTC

Permalink

NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message

Post by Roy Schestowitz
Your proposal, like many others, would improve the function of patent offices, but
these establishments are run by patent lawyers, for patent lawyers. When the fox
guards the hen house it's time to scrape/reboot the whole farm.

Very well put.

There must be peoples movement to put pressure for legislation. Have
anyone heard what is the status for software patents in EU area? Are
they still going to try to get them pass?

Patents raise costs of stuff several ways
1. to get patent and defend it is not cheap + costs of lawyers
2. patents are hindrance for competition and therefore buyers of stuff
suffers.
3. patents are hindrance for innovation, cause new things can not be
based on old ones.
4. patents can be used to destroy FOSS movement now when it at last
started to have a very positive effect on people's lives.
5. It is a lie that companies and persons would not invent if there were
not patents.

All this means deteriorating the information handling capabilities of a
common man like me.

As is typical there are lot of people who share hate for this patenting
robbery extortion and they feel bad about it personally. But that does
not help. There can be thousands of people who dislike it but if they
don't get together and organize action it won't help.

So I propose we collect money to buy few congressman ....

--
Kari Laine

PICs, Displays,Relays - USB-SPI-I2C http://www.byvac.com
USB and FPGA boards http://www.ztex.de
I am just a happy customer

Snit

2011-07-10 17:10:26 UTC

Permalink

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message

Very well put.
There must be peoples movement to put pressure for legislation. Have
anyone heard what is the status for software patents in EU area? Are
they still going to try to get them pass?
Patents raise costs of stuff several ways
1. to get patent and defend it is not cheap + costs of lawyers
2. patents are hindrance for competition and therefore buyers of stuff
suffers.
3. patents are hindrance for innovation, cause new things can not be
based on old ones.
4. patents can be used to destroy FOSS movement now when it at last
started to have a very positive effect on people's lives.
5. It is a lie that companies and persons would not invent if there were
not patents.
All this means deteriorating the information handling capabilities of a
common man like me.
As is typical there are lot of people who share hate for this patenting
robbery extortion and they feel bad about it personally. But that does
not help. There can be thousands of people who dislike it but if they
don't get together and organize action it won't help.
So I propose we collect money to buy few congressman ....

How do you propose people protect their IP? One way, of course, is the
GPL... but what about people who want other forms of protection?

--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

Kari Laine

2011-07-13 07:27:59 UTC

Permalink

NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message

Post by Snit

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message

Very well put.
There must be peoples movement to put pressure for legislation. Have
anyone heard what is the status for software patents in EU area? Are
they still going to try to get them pass?
Patents raise costs of stuff several ways
1. to get patent and defend it is not cheap + costs of lawyers
2. patents are hindrance for competition and therefore buyers of stuff
suffers.
3. patents are hindrance for innovation, cause new things can not be
based on old ones.
4. patents can be used to destroy FOSS movement now when it at last
started to have a very positive effect on people's lives.
5. It is a lie that companies and persons would not invent if there were
not patents.
All this means deteriorating the information handling capabilities of a
common man like me.
As is typical there are lot of people who share hate for this patenting
robbery extortion and they feel bad about it personally. But that does
not help. There can be thousands of people who dislike it but if they
don't get together and organize action it won't help.
So I propose we collect money to buy few congressman ....

How do you propose people protect their IP? One way, of course, is the
GPL... but what about people who want other forms of protection?

This is a good question. I don't know.
This whole IP stuff has gotten out of hand. First thing should be to
make software non-patentable. Then make hardware patents also harder to
get.

Nowadays situation where big corps are killing FOSS can not be the right
thing to have.

I am wondering how world would look like if there were no patents and
only remedy for a corporate would be to keep trade secrets and innovate
faster than competition...

--
Kari Laine

PICs, Displays,Relays - USB-SPI-I2C http://www.byvac.com
USB and FPGA boards http://www.ztex.de
I am just a happy customer

Snit

2011-07-13 07:57:16 UTC

Permalink

Kari Laine stated in post ***@giganews.com on
7/13/11 12:27 AM:

...

Post by Kari Laine

Post by Snit

Post by Kari Laine
As is typical there are lot of people who share hate for this patenting
robbery extortion and they feel bad about it personally. But that does
not help. There can be thousands of people who dislike it but if they
don't get together and organize action it won't help.
So I propose we collect money to buy few congressman ....

How do you propose people protect their IP? One way, of course, is the
GPL... but what about people who want other forms of protection?

This is a good question. I don't know.

Fair enough - I do not know either.

Post by Kari Laine
This whole IP stuff has gotten out of hand. First thing should be to
make software non-patentable. Then make hardware patents also harder to
get.

I will agree the IP "stuff" has gotten out of hand. It is absurd.
Companies are pretty much forced into playing the game if they want to make
things "equal", just as rich folks need to play with the loopholes and
shelters. In both cases the laws and regulations encourage such BS.

Post by Kari Laine
Nowadays situation where big corps are killing FOSS can not be the right
thing to have.

At the same time FOSS should not be allowed to take the ideas of others -
nor should others be allowed to. If Company A spends millions of dollars
working on a new program with a new paradigm of how to do things, Company M
should not be able to jump in and just copy it when it comes out. But how
do you rate what is a copy and what is just common sense... or even just
getting ideas from what you see in the market?

Post by Kari Laine
I am wondering how world would look like if there were no patents and
only remedy for a corporate would be to keep trade secrets and innovate
faster than competition...

But to sell your product you have to release some of your "secrets".

--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]

Roy Schestowitz

2011-07-11 01:25:33 UTC

Permalink

____/ Kari Laine on Sunday 10 Jul 2011 17:41 : \____

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message

Post by Roy Schestowitz
Your proposal, like many others, would improve the function of patent
offices, but these establishments are run by patent lawyers, for patent
lawyers. When the fox guards the hen house it's time to scrape/reboot the
whole farm.

Very well put.
There must be peoples movement to put pressure for legislation. Have
anyone heard what is the status for software patents in EU area? Are
they still going to try to get them pass?

Maybe, they try hard at the moment. I wrote about it this afternoon. Index (for context) in:
http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Software_Patents_in_Europe

Good news by the way... yesterday discovered the site got promoted to PageRank 7 :-)

Patents raise costs of stuff several ways
1. to get patent and defend it is not cheap + costs of lawyers

Good for lawyers. More jobs. 0_o

2. patents are hindrance for competition and therefore buyers of stuff
suffers.

Yes, indeed.

3. patents are hindrance for innovation, cause new things can not be
based on old ones.

Who needs innovation? It's all about the money! /rolls eyes, sarcasm

4. patents can be used to destroy FOSS movement now when it at last
started to have a very positive effect on people's lives.

Not on Ballmer's life. :-)

5. It is a lie that companies and persons would not invent if there were
not patents.

*LOL* yeah, I love that one. History shows that scientists are poor but happy nonetheless
(I'd put myself in that category). Inventions are an ego/fun thing, money comes second.

Edison was not an inventor (patent troll rather), Tesla was. Guess who wash rich and who
was poor...

All this means deteriorating the information handling capabilities of a
common man like me.
As is typical there are lot of people who share hate for this patenting
robbery extortion and they feel bad about it personally. But that does
not help. There can be thousands of people who dislike it but if they
don't get together and organize action it won't help.
So I propose we collect money to buy few congressman ....

Sounds like being a "militant atheist" Homer spoke about.. :-)

- --
~~ Best of wishes

Dr. Roy S. Schestowitz (Ph.D. Medical Biophysics), Imaging Researcher
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux administration | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Editor @ http://techrights.org & Broadcaster @ http://bytesmedia.co.uk/
GPL-licensed 3-D Othello @ http://othellomaster.com
Non-profit search engine proposal @ http://iuron.com
Contact E-mail address (direct): s at schestowitz dot com
Contact Internet phone (SIP): ***@ekiga.net (24/7)